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The Buying and Selling of Claims


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Poll: To Own or not to Own? (9 member(s) have cast votes)

I own or owned a claim and got it by...

  1. Researching and staking it myself (8 votes [88.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 88.89%

  2. Buying from an aquaintance (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Buying from a claims dot com (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. Buying at auction on Ebay (1 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

I don't own a claim,

  1. I belong to a club and work its claims. (4 votes [40.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

  2. I belong to more than one club. (2 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  3. I go to public areas like Lynx Creek. (2 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  4. I go anywhere there is gold regardless. (2 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  5. I have been run off or shot at on a claim. (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 Mingusmtn

Mingusmtn
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Posted 09 March 2010 - 05:22 PM

My question is where can a prospector find an honest claims seller if they want their own spot and don't have the time or resources to trek the countryside in search of good open ground? Are there good sellers out there?

This relates to johnb's inquiry about a claim for sale in the "Camp Verde area" and the other fellow Jake272727 that bought a claim out near Stanton. Turns out the first claim deal was an Ebay sale that went sour not once but twice, and I don't know Jakes situation but it might have been similiar.

It seems that those who live in the non gold states believe that having a claim all to ones self is the way to go and will go to some rather foolish extremes to make it so inspite of the warnings from knowledgable locals who suggest joining clubs as the way to start out.

Granted any good claim for sale has been worked to some extent and the work involved in getting more out of it will be more intensive but there should be some show for some hard work sampling the ground, at least a couple of claim posts and some record of the claims existence, Yes?
Also it should be noted that like most anything else one might buy, some form of tire kicking is required, either in person or have a reliable agent test the property before any money changes hands!

I have searched for claims for sale, mostly out of curiosity, and found any number of online sites dedicated to selling claims. Google "mining claims for sale" and you will come up with

theclaimpost idiggold2 grubstaker goldandsilvermines advancedgeologic goldledge goldoutwest arizonaminingclaims bcgold juniorminers akmining just to name a few dot coms.

Just doing a quick scan of their listings I saw prices ranging from $1,000 to $25 million but most were in the $2500 to $50,000 range.

A typical listing is this from advanced geologic: http://www.advancedg...reek/CQPL1.HTML
Note that it was written before the Cal ban on dredging but it gives info on history and geology and some guarantees for a mere $2500, enough to investigate further and have it checked out in person or with an independent source.

There are people out there who will for a reasonable fee check out properties that you can't get to right away. Much better to spend a couple hundred on having the ground proved than to wind up with an RV dump site in Yuma.

Then there are the Ebay claims sellers. I am sure that there are a number of them who are listing good proven properties but it is a virtual snake pit looking to prey on those who believe the hype and won't get out to the claim til long after the positive feedback on the transaction was given. Don't rely on that 100% feedback rating as proof of honest dealings.

Some of the regulars are: arizonagoldclaims rockproperties eurekamininginc minefinder7 uspatriot-act (formerly monty mccoy) goldseeker77 kanuchcabean mosnarbmonger toobugs luckyshotau999.

I am going to pick on arizonagoldclaims because they list claims up in my neck of the desert in locations that I have tested and passed over because there is nothing there that the prudent man would claim even at $1200/oz. A recent listing excerpt says:
Here Is A Description of The Claim Up For Sale
NE 1/4 - Cherry Road Wash #1
Located in one of the best gold producing areas of Arizona, NE 1/4 Cherry Road Wash #1 is a 40 acre
placer mining claim worth it's weight in Gold.
This is a proven gold producing claim, in a proven gold producing area.
Access to this claim does require a high 2 wheel or 4 wheel drive vehicle. It is accessed
Off of a gravel road that does have some fairly steep sections to it.
There are plenty of camping spot's on the claim, but would be difficult to bring in an RV. There are many
public campgrounds with full amenities within a 5 minute drive.
This is a rugged claim at high elevation - the views are absolutely breathtaking and gold is everywhere!
This is an extremely mineralized area - if you are a rock hound or use metal detector
you will be very happy with this claim.
The washes are loaded with black sands (an indicator of gold) and quartz is everywhere..
and
We know that there is gold on the claim as we found several small nuggets in a short amount of time - There are numerous washes from very small to very large. Most washes have some exposed bedrock and black sand is every where. I do not believe this claim has been worked for many many years. Recent heavy rains have uncovered areas that have never been exposed before (in our life time anyway).
As you know, gold doesn't just jump out to you, you have to work for it.
There are numerous campsites on the claim, and many campgrounds close by.
This is a great claim and will bring the right person a
lot of fun and profit.

The entire listing for those who need a good laugh today: http://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

How many experienced AZ prospectors have made a run up to this fabulously rich placer field or even know about this proven gold producing area? I think that one could exaggerate the location relevence by linking this area to the Bradshaws because they are in the same county, or more likely that there were some lode mines over on the other side of Cherry to the northeast, but that is all a huge stretch of the facts.

All of these agc listings contain both of these paragraphs but the one phrase that bugs me the most is "we found serveral small nuggets in a short amount of time". I just don't buy it. I have spent time in all these areas and I have been lucky to find one speck a day within a few miles of their claim areas. Quartz and black sand are evident but not abundant and don't prove anything anyhow.

One more poke at them, I have never been able to locate any of their claims by their staking/claim posts and they give no GPS co-ords nor AMC#. I was up on the Cherry road yesterday using agc maps looking specifically for two of their claims at the request of out of state parties and I could not find any indication of corners nor can I find them on GeoComm. It can take as little as 30 days now for claims to show up there. I just have to wonder if they don't just pick out an unclaimed piece of land and list it without staking and filing until they get someone to put some money down on it.
Oh, and the views are not breathtaking and there is only one public (FS) campground anywhere near there.

One particular part of the deal in their favor is that they will take a down payment and let you make monthly payments which you can stop making at any time you actually get to visit your claim and find no gold. Thereupon they relist the claim and sell it to another gullible wannabe claim owner.



Who among these could one trust? I'm not saying that the first list of dot coms are any safer or surer than the Ebayers. Please tell us about your experience! I'll go first!

I admit to having fallen for one of the early claim share ebay deals out near Rye AZ. I thought I had done my due diligence and asked the seller 38special who would pay the annual fees and when he said he would do it for the group and if he decided not to he would inform all parties, I believed him. Turned out that he didn't do it even for that year. I was out only a $100 and look back at it now it as a lowcost educational experience.

Doug

ps I don't apologize if any of the American Gold Prospectors forum members are mentioned above in any category. Defend yourselves here on these pages!

#2 Rod

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 07:16 PM

I'd never buy a claim off Ebay unless I knew something the claim owner did not, 99.9999 percent of all Ebay claims are way over priced and some are salted fakes. Not saying all the sellers are dishonest either, some really try hard to help but with anything a few bad apples spoil the bushel. Gordy and I sold three decent claims in Ebay in 2005 for $1,000.00 to one guy, that was a decent deal and in any year the buyer could have easily recouped the cost.

You are correct 100% feedback for claim sellers on Ebay means nothing, most likely that a bunch of snowbirds bought them. Might even find some nice rounded, shiny gold with no natural patina on them, seen that happen to folks out at Rich Hill several times Posted Image Unlike any desert gold you've ever seen, special Posted Image

But, the buying and selling of claims is not unlawful nor illegal - there is a difference and business is business. Do yourself a favor explore and find your own claims, you'll have a great sense of satisfaction and know what you are getting for under $200.00. There is no short cut to success or satisfaction.

A few weeks ago I offered a guy $5,000.00 for his 20 acre claim but he's no fool so he turned me down, we both know it has good gold and I've seen it. Not many out there worth their asking price but there are a few gems. They key is having the experience to know.

#3 Goldeagle

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  • Interests:Gold prospecting , working on my claims .Exploring , Metal detecting old mining camps around my claims .

Posted 09 March 2010 - 10:51 PM

What a subject ,where to start ?????????? years ago I purchased 4 placer claims thru E-bay , seller was Gold out west , Jeff Hill , Can't say any thing bad about the claims by luck they are some of the better claims in the area . I have located and filed 8 or 9 myself . I sold the claims I purchased from Jeff , now I am sorry I did , We paid for the claims two times over . I watch the E-bay adds , my opinion is be cafeful I was lucky . I have sold some claims on E -bay , I warn my prospective buyers to contact me If they don't know about desert mining . I have talked people out of buying . Some sellers will sell you a claim miles from the source , on the flats , sure there is gold . The people I have sold to have my phone number ,I ask them to call so I can meet them on their claims .

Some of the sellers on e-bay cut up their Association claims into 20,40,or 80 acre claims so as to make more money on sale , I advise don't buy a claim sight unseen . I advise joining a club ,G P A . is O K .This gives you a chance to find out whats it all about . I don't care who you buy a claim from , just don't think you are going to get rich quik . Lets face it ,if the claims for sale could make you rich they wouldn't be for sale .

So what is happening now the , B L M Az. is interested in sellers staking and selling Association claims , using dead people , relatives and buddys names .A data base is being put togather to keep track of these stakers.To many paople have been burned . I will tune in later ..... Nuf Said Don

#4 Lotsa Luck

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 06:31 AM

We sell claims from time to time, but never on ebay and rarely in the ICMJ. Normally we have several buyers lined up and waiting on us to find some ground, prove it's reserves and then offer it for sale. We don't sell most of the better claims right away until something better comes along for our interests. There are 4 guys looking for new claims that have a close relationship to us waiting right now for some new ground we are working. Once we decide to sell it and find another spot they will be very happy to purchase and work the claims. They have already sampled it along side us and on their own so no surprises.

#5 Goldeagle

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  • Interests:Gold prospecting , working on my claims .Exploring , Metal detecting old mining camps around my claims .

Posted 10 March 2010 - 02:06 PM

Thats great , if more sellers would take care of their buyers , we wouldn't have so many problems . I have two new claim owners coming out the end of the month . You meet some realy good people . Last time out we ran into a young couple that had just purchased an E-bay claim . Its about two miles down from the source , so I gave them my phone # and told them to call me so I could let them use one of my claims if they didn't have any luck . I also ran into the Coggins bros. ( nugget hunters ) their son had puchased a claim next to the couple , they were not happy about how far from the mines it was. I gave these guys permission to detect. on 3 of our claims , just so they would call with any finds . Bottom line is life is short have some fun . Nuf said Don

#6 tvanwho

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 09:49 PM

I almost bought a 3000 dollar claim over by Payson a few years back.The seller even invited me out to check on it which seemed legit.BUT, when I got to Phoenix, I called BLM and they informed me the claim had NOT been in the sellers possession for at least 3 years and was up for grabs at the moment. I asked the seller about this when I got to Payson and he confessed. And the sad part was he was the brother of a well known Arizona meteorite hunter? I did get to go to the family's patented mining claim and the guys Uncle put me up for a nite and showed me some gold he had found and he was highgrading gold ore from the old family mine what had caved in years before. He said he sold the better stuff to a ,...well..., gambler guy in Vegas to resell to greenhorn wannabees for big money. I wasn't sure if that was a scam or just what, so kept my mouth shut. The ore was white rusty quartz and he did get out a 10 x loupe and showed me the tiny gold particles in the stuff. Yes, I could see them.He told me if you could even see the gold with a 10x loupe, it was good for 3 ounces per ton. He had a chunk of crystalline gold that came from a long trench he had dug on a hillside at a spot I had marked with my map dowsing for gold. THe 4 ounce nugget had been embedded in this huge boulder. He had to use that hydrofluoric? acid to get the nugget out of the rock. He told me he knew of like 30 spots within a few miles where he could get more gold.
Then we took a piece of that rusty quartz over to his homemade stamping mill. He had a part of a truck axle about a foot long as a pestle and a chunk of cast iron pipe with a 1/4 inch steel plate welded to one end. We poured some water into the pipe, tossed the rock in there, and started pounding. He let me pound and said when I felt it was metal on metal, I could stop the pounding.We then poured the water/dust out into a gold pan.He sure wasn't lying about the rusty quartz and gold as a tail of fine gold showed up in the pan. And yes , the pan was empty to start with . This ol guy really knew his stuff and seemed to be the real McCoy unlike his nephew.
I was shown the nuggets that had supposedly come off the bogus claim for sale. A 1 and a 3 ouncer, slugs, then was told the spot was a 10 mile hike in from the nearest road and no FS people would go in there to check on it. So, I could have at it for free now? I passed , a 10 mile hike in on foot, no thanks. I was told I could metal detect their patented claim land which I did.No nuggets but got a big piece of magnetite and learned about the Boing Boing noise from hotrocks with my Lobo. Almost stepped on a rattle snake slithering straight up the hill I was on .The family toy collie was following me around and the damn doggie kept humping my leg ,not to mention went right up to the snake for a good sniff,stupid dog?
Well, I learnt a few things about gold .Heck, all the Arizona meteorite guys were out in my neck of the woods that weekend as a meteorite fall had just happened in Park Forest,Illinois that very weekend.They were paying big money for the rocks. A lot of local town folks turned their stones in to the cops thinking they were govt property???
The smart ones sold for big money. I got a tiny piece off Ebay just to have a souvenir of a local meteorite fall and see what all the fuss was about.

-Tom












Thats great , if more sellers would take care of their buyers , we wouldn't have so many problems . I have two new claim owners coming out the end of the month . You meet some realy good people . Last time out we ran into a young couple that had just purchased an E-bay claim . Its about two miles down from the source , so I gave them my phone # and told them to call me so I could let them use one of my claims if they didn't have any luck . I also ran into the Coggins bros. ( nugget hunters ) their son had puchased a claim next to the couple , they were not happy about how far from the mines it was. I gave these guys permission to detect. on 3 of our claims , just so they would call with any finds . Bottom line is life is short have some fun . Nuf said Don



#7 Gilaoro

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 06:52 AM

My question is where can a prospector find an honest claims seller if they want their own spot and don't have the time or resources to trek the countryside in search of good open ground? Are there good sellers out there?

This relates to johnb's inquiry about a claim for sale in the "Camp Verde area" and the other fellow Jake272727 that bought a claim out near Stanton. Turns out the first claim deal was an Ebay sale that went sour not once but twice, and I don't know Jakes situation but it might have been similiar.

It seems that those who live in the non gold states believe that having a claim all to ones self is the way to go and will go to some rather foolish extremes to make it so inspite of the warnings from knowledgable locals who suggest joining clubs as the way to start out.

Granted any good claim for sale has been worked to some extent and the work involved in getting more out of it will be more intensive but there should be some show for some hard work sampling the ground, at least a couple of claim posts and some record of the claims existence, Yes?
Also it should be noted that like most anything else one might buy, some form of tire kicking is required, either in person or have a reliable agent test the property before any money changes hands!

I have searched for claims for sale, mostly out of curiosity, and found any number of online sites dedicated to selling claims. Google "mining claims for sale" and you will come up with

theclaimpost idiggold2 grubstaker goldandsilvermines advancedgeologic goldledge goldoutwest arizonaminingclaims bcgold juniorminers akmining just to name a few dot coms.

Just doing a quick scan of their listings I saw prices ranging from $1,000 to $25 million but most were in the $2500 to $50,000 range.

A typical listing is this from advanced geologic: http://www.advancedg...reek/CQPL1.HTML
Note that it was written before the Cal ban on dredging but it gives info on history and geology and some guarantees for a mere $2500, enough to investigate further and have it checked out in person or with an independent source.

There are people out there who will for a reasonable fee check out properties that you can't get to right away. Much better to spend a couple hundred on having the ground proved than to wind up with an RV dump site in Yuma.

Then there are the Ebay claims sellers. I am sure that there are a number of them who are listing good proven properties but it is a virtual snake pit looking to prey on those who believe the hype and won't get out to the claim til long after the positive feedback on the transaction was given. Don't rely on that 100% feedback rating as proof of honest dealings.

Some of the regulars are: arizonagoldclaims rockproperties eurekamininginc minefinder7 uspatriot-act (formerly monty mccoy) goldseeker77 kanuchcabean mosnarbmonger toobugs luckyshotau999.

I am going to pick on arizonagoldclaims because they list claims up in my neck of the desert in locations that I have tested and passed over because there is nothing there that the prudent man would claim even at $1200/oz. A recent listing excerpt says:
Here Is A Description of The Claim Up For Sale
The entire listing for those who need a good laugh today: http://cgi.ebay.com/...e=STRK:MEWAX:IT

How many experienced AZ prospectors have made a run up to this fabulously rich placer field or even know about this proven gold producing area? I think that one could exaggerate the location relevence by linking this area to the Bradshaws because they are in the same county, or more likely that there were some lode mines over on the other side of Cherry to the northeast, but that is all a huge stretch of the facts.

All of these agc listings contain both of these paragraphs but the one phrase that bugs me the most is "we found serveral small nuggets in a short amount of time". I just don't buy it. I have spent time in all these areas and I have been lucky to find one speck a day within a few miles of their claim areas. Quartz and black sand are evident but not abundant and don't prove anything anyhow.

One more poke at them, I have never been able to locate any of their claims by their staking/claim posts and they give no GPS co-ords nor AMC#. I was up on the Cherry road yesterday using agc maps looking specifically for two of their claims at the request of out of state parties and I could not find any indication of corners nor can I find them on GeoComm.



Who among these could one trust? I'm not saying that the first list of dot coms are any safer or surer than the Ebayers. Please tell us about your experience! I'll go first!


I, along with Buckeye Steve and others have been trying to establish placer production on a 50 acre Patented claim on Cherry Ck for 6 months.

It is true there's lots of gold, however its all in hardrock mines of which 2 or 3 are active at this time, the placer is not there, the creek is a race track and at the lower end where it does slow and spread out there's
a number of patented claims where it was worked as a gravel operation in the 1970,s with the gold as a secondary which is true all over AZ.

There are lots of old hard rock mines above the creek but the old timers worked the hell out of it and moved it all over, the pan and dredge dosen't lie !!

I even brought Russ Ford in to double check and if he can't find it , it ain't there !!

My two bits!!

Max

BTW: The active mines don't drain into Cherry CK.

#8 NC Gold

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 09:08 AM

We bought a 20 acre claim, just S.E. of Congress, afew years back. Was only on it twice, with no detector. Paid next to nothing on Ebay and kept it current for a couple years, then let it fall thru the crack. Forgot about filing deadline till 2 days after. There was some fine gold in some of the washes, would have loved to take my Gold bug out there, seemed to be alot of quartz in the old dry stream bed. For what I paid, was worth it just to go out and enjoy. I only spent maybe 4 days total and it worked out to less than 35.00 a day, as I paid just over 120.00, opening bid! That was about 7 years ago, but thoses days are gone.

#9 Mingusmtn

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 10:16 PM

My hope is that wannabe claim owners will find their way into this forum and see this and all the rest of the good info on this site from experienced prospectors.

I want to thank every one who has contributed their two bits worth and I hope there are a few more out there who will get around adding theirs.

The summary is that there is no short cut to finding a good claim, to know something that the seller doesn't know takes research, the kind that could get you your own for a whole lot less.
Business is business so be really careful - buying a claim is not like buying a widget, try before you buy. If ebay seems to be the place for you to get a claim at a low price then wait til you get to the state or area you want to prospect in to check on the auctions.


ps Max, I have found 3 specks of gold in the Cherry area all from roadside ditches within a mile or so of the town. Maybe I could auction off the GPS co-ords on those finds. B)

Doug




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