[lazy prospector]

I THINK YOU SHOULDNT I WORK HARD AT FINDING THE GOOD STUFF I UNDERSTAND THAT IT ISNT A CLAIMED SPOT BUT TO HAVE RESPECT FOR OTHER FELLOW PROSPECTOR YOU SHOULDNT I BELEIVE THAT TO BE GOOD PROSPECTORS ETHICS NOW IF 2 WEEKS GO BY THEN I FEEL IT IS OPEN GROUND OR IF YOU KNOW SOMEONE HAS ABANDONED THERE SPOT THEN JUMP RIGHT IN WHAT DO YOU THINK?

[Rod]

Welcome Lazy - sounds like a story behind this one, can you share it?

[pannininthebradshaws]

I agree with that also, if I know the person I will ask if they are still workin the area if so I'll stay away, if they have gone missing for a few weeks, I might jump in just to test the waters so to speak.

I worked the panning area on lynx creek for 6 weeks straight, I was there atleast 5 days a week, and I knew all the guys that were working there also, so I never had a problem with any of them, there was 1 incident where I was working a REALLY good pocket, and someone I did'nt know walked up on me and saw the gold I was getting, he stayed within 20 feet of me for the rest of the day just watching, I made sure to stay until dark so I knew he would'nt jump in, and I told him I would be back the next morning.

The area opened at 7AM, I got there at 7:30 and he and his friend were in my spot! I was p***ed but what could I do, its a public panning area, so I just started panning about 5 FT below the spot. After an hour or so this guy broke a crack in the bedrock and pulled 5 pickers, probably 3 10ths of a gram each, now I was really p***ed, so I went above the spot and started diggin in grey clay, I knew there was no gold in it but I made the water so dirty he could'nt see what he was doin, childish I know but I did tell him I was comin back the next day!

1 other thing that happend to me was a guy walked up to me on Lynx creek and said I was in his spot, I told him there was not even a hole there when I started, his reply was that he had been workin the spot on and off for the last 5 years, and everyone KNEW it was his spot. My take on that is, just because you stuck a shovel in a spot 10 years ago does'nt mean you have sole right to it, no doubt the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

If your not on a claim, well it's really about your ethics, you could if you wanted to, just jump in a guys spot while he's standing there and help yourself! I dont recommend it, BUT you could do it!

[Grubstake]

I think there would be a pry bar across someones head, in my case! Grubstake

[lazy prospector]

Welcome Lazy - sounds like a story behind this one, can you share it?

yeah not a problem a little while back i had seen an area and new it was producing good gold even a 3.88 ounce nugget i would consider this prospector a friend i hadnt seen him for about ten days so one day i thought lets see what hes getting i did two pans and handed a few to a friend we discused that i hadnt seen him in a while so i thought why not my couple of pans had specs i said i wouldnt work this hard for specs i used to see that prospector damn near every day i dont beleive we had done anything wrong so we decided to go do some test pans somewhere else when i was confronted by the prospector he was a little rude he had been watching from behind some trees he should have confronted when i was there i would have apoligized and would have got out with no problem this story i where im guilty or not depends who is looking at it but i have noticed a couple of greenies sneaking up on a spot i have been working inching there way closer and closer i dont want to be a jerk but i have worked hard in that area that is why i asked the question those greenies could get a book or go to goldtube.net and pick up the video of profesional panning tactics it is a good one lazy prospector

[russford]

Welcome Jason. I didn't know you knew how to read ....much less type

Jason is a buddy of mine, and so it's OK for me to wrang him a bit.

I didn't get in your hole after you left the other day. Plus, I even hauled out all of Johns
Pepsi cans. Hope I'm not getting the blame for something I didn't do.

Someone once said, "the true test of an honest man is what he does when no one is looking."

........ rf

[lazy prospector]

I think there would be a pry bar across someones head, in my case! Grubstake

thats not a bad idea i have a 6 footer sounds good now but i think fists of furry would quinch the anger

[lazy prospector]

Welcome Jason. I didn't know you knew how to read ....much less type

Jason is a buddy of mine, and so it's OK for me to wrang him a bit.

I didn't get in your hole after you left the other day. Plus, I even hauled out all of Johns
Pepsi cans. Hope I'm not getting the blame for something I didn't do.

Someone once said, "the true test of an honest man is what he does when no one is looking."

........ rf

hey russ did you go out today? hey your right i dont read much and my spelling isnt all that good i got 2 grams today worked my ass off and jim took a couple buckets home howdy partner oh by the way i told you if you wanted to jump in there go right a head just save some for me how did the sweeping of that bed rock turn out did i leave much behind

[pannininthebradshaws]

Russ you pulled all my claim markers?

HEHE, I know i should'nt leave em, and I dont leave em all, but I actually had an incident where those little cans served their purpose

[russford]

Russ you pulled all my claim markers?

HEHE, I know i should'nt leave em, and I dont leave em all, but I actually had an incident where those little cans served their purpose

..rf

[pickNgold]

yeah not a problem a little while back i had seen an area and new it was producing good gold even a 3.88 ounce nugget i would consider this prospector a friend i hadnt seen him for about ten days so one day i thought lets see what hes getting i did two pans and handed a few to a friend we discused that i hadnt seen him in a while so i thought why not my couple of pans had specs i said i wouldnt work this hard for specs i used to see that prospector damn near every day i dont beleive we had done anything wrong so we decided to go do some test pans somewhere else when i was confronted by the prospector he was a little rude he had been watching from behind some trees he should have confronted when i was there i would have apoligized and would have got out with no problem this story i where im guilty or not depends who is looking at it but i have noticed a couple of greenies sneaking up on a spot i have been working inching there way closer and closer i dont want to be a jerk but i have worked hard in that area that is why i asked the question those greenies could get a book or go to goldtube.net and pick up the video of profesional panning tactics it is a good one lazy prospector

As a newbie at this game, maybe my two cents worth isn't worth two cents...but these stories give me hives. Working a 'spot' that a guy knows is being worked is no different than claim jumping, in my book. This is why I prospect in areas with little to no gold history, but near known gold areas with the same attributes. I spent a half day with a guy that wanted to.."show me a start" in prospecting. So he takes me to an area with small tailings piles everywhere and tells me all about the various 'spots'he has run into other guys working the holes he had started. We didn't find much, but that night I looked up the location on geocommunicator....we were smack in the middle of a claim. If it were his claim he would have told me that, and would likely not have tolerated the 'claim jumpers' he runs into. This is a like sleeping with another mans wife . I think I'll go it alone...in the off the wall places for now................

pick

[Dave wiseman]

Obviously more and more of these scenarios will come to pass as the available ground and access to prospecting areas continue to shrink.Twenty five years ago there were few people metal detecting for gold,mostly coin and relic stuff.These days beepers travel far and wide just for a decent place to find a few little nuggetts and companionship.A few handfulls of lucky beepers and prospectors must exist in say the lightly populated areas of northern California above Sacramento where the cpometetion is light and people don't post of their diggings and perhaps confide their finds and stories to a couple of trusted friends.If one has worked a good spot by whatever your preference is,it's likely you've been highgraded and have had equipment stolen,even plastic 5 gallon buckets.When a no nothing newbee rips you off,there is slight room for understanding.On the other hand if a fellow with 30 years in the field,who has half the gold of the Vatican already in his pouch comes a scratching at your spot where there are obvious signs of a recent dig and he knows your the only prospector who does hardrock,well eh matey he ain't worth a spit of snoose in his eye.It is inevitable that violence will occur in the goldfields at somepoinover a few bits of yellow and fellows arguing principles.Such is the case of whose fire hydrant is it really,as we all lift a leg to mark our teritory.Not easy to be civil as they cut the back pocket right off the jeans your wearing while smiling in your face.Be kind to each other and lend a hand to the newbees as many of you have done.We all must decide what the value of gold really is!

[fishing8046]

Lazy Prospector If this was fishing and you are not the first one to the spot then whoever is there it's there spot and you should keep your distance. In fishing you must stay 50 yards away from another angler weather you found the fish the other guy is catching or not. If the area is open to the public than you don't really have claim to a spot. be the first one ther or you probably need to find some unknown ground.

[Reno Chris]

Gold makes folks do stuff that they would not do otherwise.

Its amazing what greed is involked by 5 or 10 dollars if it comes in the form of gold.

So many friendships have been lost.

Once the other person is really gone, if there is no claim, you have the right to prospect after him or her.

Chris

[Randy Wright]

but that night I looked up the location on geocommunicator....we were smack in the middle of a claim. If it were his claim he would have told me that, and would likely not have tolerated the 'claim jumpers' he runs into. This is a like sleeping with another mans wife . I think I'll go it alone...in the off the wall places for now................

pick

Man that's horrible. I agree with the wife analogy

[russford]

This is one of those "iffy" situations in working open ground or a withdrawn area . Some say it's like fishing and you have no claim after you leave the spot. Others say it's like claim jumping. Here's what I think. ASK!

You have to respect the feelings of the person who "was" working the hole wheather you know him or not. If you know who is working it or, if you come across him working, find out how he feels. Say something like, "are you going to be working here awhile, or would you mind if I worked around here after you leave". A simple straight forward question will usually get you an honest answer. Then respect what he says. Most will say, "sure, jump in after I'm done if you want". But that way you won't offend the person who wants to "lay claim" to his hole.

However, most of the problems come up when a person comes across a recent dig and really doesn't know who has worked it or if he is coming back. Also many times there will be many holes in a short distance. Are they all off limits or just one special hole? When that happens to me, I usually test them and try to find out if someone is working it. If they "catch me" there, I say too bad. I honestly know in my heart that I was unaware he was coming back and so regardless of how he takes it - I'm comfortable that I did my best. I appoligize and move on. No spot is worth making the situation worse. I like Dave's line, "we all must decide what the value of gold really is".

.......... rf

[Gilaoro]

I agree with you Russ. I mostly work club or a friends claim now days but even then I leave a an old bucket with my name on it and date it and say I am coming back. Works most times but some guys will come along and hang around until they see you find something and then move right in or when you come back at dawns early light they are like the other posts said. The other part is simple if you are mining on a legitimate claim and do not have permission you are a claim jumper........................
Open ground, hey, no one can get it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mrfrogdude]

I would have to say that when I was starting off all I did was test pan in other peoples holes. But now that I have talked with Russ and John and Jason (and I saw Johns video) I hardly do that. I have found all of my pickers and the nugget just by going off of what I have learned from them. They were a huge help!

Now if someone came across the hole I was working on saturday with my machine and they cleaned it out when I wasnt there....yeah I would be ticked off....but then I would have to get over it because it's not my spot by law. Sure it would really suck, but that would just challenge me to go find an even better spot! I always try to look on the bright side....thats just me though.

Mark

[fishing8046]

When fishing for trout it always seems that when you are catching them people will ask what are you using for bait. Then they'll watch awhile to see how your catching them. Then they will come and fish a little ways away using what they saw you doing and if they still can't catch a fish they will move in so your almost elbow to elbow but if they cross your line to get at your fish you let them know thats all your going to take.

[lazy prospector]

As a newbie at this game, maybe my two cents worth isn't worth two cents...but these stories give me hives. Working a 'spot' that a guy knows is being worked is no different than claim jumping, in my book. This is why I prospect in areas with little to no gold history, but near known gold areas with the same attributes. I spent a half day with a guy that wanted to.."show me a start" in prospecting. So he takes me to an area with small tailings piles everywhere and tells me all about the various 'spots'he has run into other guys working the holes he had started. We didn't find much, but that night I looked up the location on geocommunicator....we were smack in the middle of a claim. If it were his claim he would have told me that, and would likely not have tolerated the 'claim jumpers' he runs into. This is a like sleeping with another mans wife . I think I'll go it alone...in the off the wall places for now................

pick

i agree with what you said maybe i should just tolerate the newbies also

[lazy prospector]

This is one of those "iffy" situations in working open ground or a withdrawn area . Some say it's like fishing and you have no claim after you leave the spot. Others say it's like claim jumping. Here's what I think. ASK!

You have to respect the feelings of the person who "was" working the hole wheather you know him or not. If you know who is working it or, if you come across him working, find out how he feels. Say something like, "are you going to be working here awhile, or would you mind if I worked around here after you leave". A simple straight forward question will usually get you an honest answer. Then respect what he says. Most will say, "sure, jump in after I'm done if you want". But that way you won't offend the person who wants to "lay claim" to his hole.

However, most of the problems come up when a person comes across a recent dig and really doesn't know who has worked it or if he is coming back. Also many times there will be many holes in a short distance. Are they all off limits or just one special hole? When that happens to me, I usually test them and try to find out if someone is working it. If they "catch me" there, I say too bad. I honestly know in my heart that I was unaware he was coming back and so regardless of how he takes it - I'm comfortable that I did my best. I appoligize and move on. No spot is worth making the situation worse. I like Dave's line, "we all must decide what the value of gold really is".

.......... rf

well all reply to you all now you all have good points ive talked to russ before about this and i just wanted to hear what you all had to say yeah mark i agree it would tick me off as a matter of fact ed did that once to me i dont show him what i got to this day i guess all be nice to those newbes i was one once and i still wont jump into another man/womans prospect i still feel it aint right even though i could and they couldnt do a damn thing about it i might start looking off the beaten path so to speak not bad advice thanks for all your time good luck on finding the pay dirt russ and mark and john are you heading out tomorrow on the creek lazy prospector

[Wyndham]

Hey if you want to see fishing extreme, go to a fishing pier on the east coast when the fish are running and there'll be 50 people in a 10 sq ft area hooking each other as well as the fish. Lines get tangled, temper flare,all over a fish or two.
So I'm going to go look for a nugget with a $2000-$4000 MD and having never been in a nugget patch(thatI know of) in my life. I don't know anybody and don't know the sign language everbody else knows. Don't know if I'm in a claim because I walked in between the marker. I'm walking around smelling the roses and enjoying the day, I'm dead meat. I doubt I'd last 10 min without stepping on more toes than a centipede.
Really , the learning curve of the do's and don't is so what fearsome. Playing horseshoes with landmines seems easier. But this is about GOLD so me and my brother stupid(I'm an only child) might just trade in the fishing tackle for a MD and head west.
Wyndham

[fishing8046]

Wyndham We have an urban fishing program down here that I'm sure would compare. As far as someone marking there digging with a tool or a bucket to come back the next day I wouldn't touch that ground or if I saw a fellow working a peice of ground and thought he might return I wouldn't touch that ground either. I agree with the I'll take the high road mentality of Russ and when in doubt or if there is any question in your mind that I might be doing the wrong thing I'll just move on.
Wyndham I'm pretty sure these guys are talking about the Lynx creek area which is an open to all comers no personal claim allowed area so I could see how there could be some well you know playing horseshoes with land mines. But there is more open ground than any 100 men could cover in a life time in Arizona

[Wyndham]

Yea, it was a little smart ass or dumb ass, either works, post on my part. I guess I was kinda shaking my head because human nature is about the same if its fish or nuggets.
I would however love to get back out west, it's been 12 or so years and if I could I would but my better half keeps remining me about reality. I do enjoy the post from the different gold forum, keeps me just this side of crazy. Keeper beepin Wyndham

[Dave wiseman]

Ah yes,the thrill of searching and finding that elusive yellow stuff.Many of us us on the various forums have found nuggets,quartz species,fine gold,all in varying sizes,configurations and value.This is the end product of the best find,the search itself,for one's self and sense of accomplishment.Who among us posters and lurkers have not had a helping hand in this gold business,whether it be through a club,a forum,a friend or stranger...even the old odd book or two.New chums to the game should be ewncouraged and helped as this promotes and keeps alive the spirit of the west,the spirit of the quest,the ultimate American theme,"Persist and do not quit".These newcomers are likened to young relatives who will pass on the family traditions and keep the prospecting game and know how alive.How many of us in this life when floudering were offfered an unasked for helping hand by a stranger and it pulled us through a hardship or brought us closer to job,a life,a happiness,perhaps undeserved but apperaring out of the blue to put us on the right track.Go west young man is perhaps not a physical direction,but a general encouragement to the old bible saying Seek and ye shall find.The path to theyellow has many great adventures along the way and letting a greenhorn ride your shirtails for awhile is an honorable and useful thing..........Dave

[lazy prospector]

Wyndham We have an urban fishing program down here that I'm sure would compare. As far as someone marking there digging with a tool or a bucket to come back the next day I wouldn't touch that ground or if I saw a fellow working a peice of ground and thought he might return I wouldn't touch that ground either. I agree with the I'll take the high road mentality of Russ and when in doubt or if there is any question in your mind that I might be doing the wrong thing I'll just move on.
Wyndham I'm pretty sure these guys are talking about the Lynx creek area which is an open to all comers no personal claim allowed area so I could see how there could be some well you know playing horseshoes with land mines. But there is more open ground than any 100 men could cover in a life time in Arizona

well you guys are right it just like fishing knowledge is the key havnt ever fished on a pear neither and i understand i dont have a right of claim in most areas unless i get one but when you work your ass off and some one else doesnt have respect for the one who created that prospect well shame on them i guess but go ahead jump right in dont show any respect for fellow prospecters oh im a gpaa member by the way im on soldier boy which i still dont have the right to claim you know in the old days people got shot i guess thats the value of the yellow stuff huh well i guess i see who i would prospect with and who i wouldnt thanks for your input im sure this post lays it out on the table good luck on getting the colour lazy prospector

[russford]

Ah yes,the thrill of searching and finding that elusive yellow stuff.Many of us us on the various forums have found nuggets,quartz species,fine gold,all in varying sizes,configurations and value.This is the end product of the best find,the search itself,for one's self and sense of accomplishment.Who among us posters and lurkers have not had a helping hand in this gold business,whether it be through a club,a forum,a friend or stranger...even the old odd book or two.New chums to the game should be ewncouraged and helped as this promotes and keeps alive the spirit of the west,the spirit of the quest,the ultimate American theme,"Persist and do not quit".These newcomers are likened to young relatives who will pass on the family traditions and keep the prospecting game and know how alive.How many of us in this life when floudering were offfered an unasked for helping hand by a stranger and it pulled us through a hardship or brought us closer to job,a life,a happiness,perhaps undeserved but apperaring out of the blue to put us on the right track.Go west young man is perhaps not a physical direction,but a general encouragement to the old bible saying Seek and ye shall find.The path to theyellow has many great adventures along the way and letting a greenhorn ride your shirtails for awhile is an honorable and useful thing..........Dave

Wow Dave, that was great. Are you writing a book? Didn't know you could wax poetic like that. I enjoyed it. You should try red wine more often.

......... rf

[Dave wiseman]

Russ,thanks for the kind words.Surprised you recall the red wine thing.No wine last night though I noticed a full moon this morning which may have had an eerie effect on my writing.The jug of Carlo Rossi sangria sits a few feet away at this moment and mostly is shared with neighbors on occasion,probably not often enough.At this point in time I'm more inclined to be in a teaching mode than a prospecting one as my health and ambition flucuate wildly,an arithmia which has led to nothingness on my part.At some point hopefully I'll get back into scratching the ground.Still haven't forgotten your kind offer of a few years ago.Actually many years ago I did have a self published book of poetry out that was well received and is in a handfull of college libraries,if the copies still exist.The little clicks on all the gold forums interest me,being somewhat of a loner I get a chuckle out of the bickerings,innuendos and soap opera like stories.........The sharing of the info on the forums,provided to all that peek in is what it's all about,though I wish more fellows would try to get into basic hardrock stuff,not to make a mine,but just for a little higrade adventure.I'm very lax on rewriting posts or correcting spelling as my typing is the old one finger stuff.Hopefully I'll be in Arizona this fall or winter if things work out.Been trying for years to meet some you fellows..............Dave

[Wyndham]

Dave I too enjoy your writing style. I've caught a few post of yours over the few years I've wandered the different forums.
Human nature seem to be the same whether it is gold or fish or the plaground when we were all much younger. Some folks "get it" some learn over a lifetime, some never understand it's about the Soul, not the Gold. In my earlier post I was both joking and a little serious because many times learning the lay of the land is not as easy as just reading a map.
So if I ever get outa here, and trade a potters wheel for a MD, I'll have to find the coffee shop some of you folks hang out on wet cold days, and visit.
Many years ago I used to visit the fellow over at the Bluebird mine out from Apache Jct toward Roosevelt lakes. He was kind enough to give me a tour before the Mine saftey folks said no more tours. He told me one day that there were more than a few folks that roam the Superstitions and will shot on site someone walking on what they believe is there claim. Even though I know it is legal to simply walk across a claim, with no intentions of even picking up a rock to look at, trying to figure out what is in the other fellows head can be a bit tricky, when he has a gun site on you.
I lived at Apache Jct back in the winter of 1989 and remember a very tall fellow who wore buckskins and drove a car from the back seat. There was a plastic bubble like a sun roof for him to see where he was going. Is he still around?
Just a few wobbly brain cells remembering back a ways. Later Wyndham

[Dave wiseman]

Thanks Wyndham,
just throw down what comes into my head.Perhaps I need an agent to represent me,such as Flakmagnet,him being from L.A. In any case it's interesting to see that one's posts has an effect on other people.Perhaps what people like most about the gold forums is the acceptance from strangers and the spur of the moment answers we receive about our quirky hobby..............Dave

[Randy Wright]

Many years ago I used to visit the fellow over at the Bluebird mine out from Apache Jct toward Roosevelt lakes.

Louie?

He told me one day that there were more than a few folks that roam the Superstitions and will shot on site someone walking on what they believe is there claim. Even though I know it is legal to simply walk across a claim, with no intentions of even picking up a rock to look at, trying to figure out what is in the other fellows head can be a bit tricky, when he has a gun site on you.

That used to be true, but it's not like that anymore. Many people have died back there from suspecting circumstances. That lure of lost treasure does funny things to some. The most famous of all was Adolph Ruth. I wrote an article about it here. First article on the page:

http://www.lostdutchmanmines.com/searcherscluesmaps.html

[Wyndham]

Randy, yea that's Louie and his mother always made her home a Christmas feast for the eyes. She passed from cancer years ago but made the news for many years about her Christmas decorating. She had every room in there small home decorated in Christmas stuff down to the toilet paper . How's Louie doing, is the rock shop still there, if you happen to know?
Wyndham